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Wednesday, August 31, 2011

Cookie Monster 'Cross

ILLINOIS: Chicago - This one comes courtesy of Rob Curtis (Team PSIMET)
(See his photo over on the left?). Obviously enjoying his first cyclocross race of the season!



WISCONSIN: Kansasville - Not 'breaking news' by any stretch of the imagination, but Dave Eckel (KS Energy) informs us that the back side of the Bong time trial course has been repaved. Not that it was that horrible before hand, but that should really make this already fast course, even faster (making exception to the rule that one should never hurry through a bong).  The Bong loop has been the site of many time trials here in Wisconsin and this past weekend was the ABR Double Bong Time Trial (two laps). Matthew Busche (then IS Corps) won the 2009 WI State TT Champs here on this course and the next week, signed up with Kelly Benefit Strategies. The lap follows the perimeter of the Bong State Recreational Area which, back during WWII, was designated to be a US Air Force Base but it was never built. The runways were graded but never paved, but now serve the public in dog training, ATV riding, and such. This video shows part of the course.





MISSOURI: St. Louis - The Gateway Cup begins it's 4 day adventure this Friday, September 2nd in the Lafayette Square neighborhood with it's multi-category Twilight Criterium. Lets hope we get lots of information from the races as the series unfolds!

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011

Crosstacular Tuesday

MICHIGAN: Birmingham - A few more nice images uploaded from the race by the Downtown Ferndale Bike Shop.







ILLINOIS: Chicago - Some video from the cyclocross relay race this past Sunday:



MINNESOTA: Twin Cities - Here's the info on the Lazer Sport Cyclocross Super Series for 2011, a four race series held within the MCF cyclocross season featuring $1,400 in prizes.
















INDIANA: Indianapolis - The Indiana State Track Championships were this past weekend. True Sport has all the RESULTS. Kevin Lillard has some excellent PHOTOS. This is good training for the upcoming USA Collegiate Track Nationals which are to be held there on September 15 - 17th.





 SPAIN: Madrid - Our hero Matthew Busche (Radio Shack) continues his journey through his first grand tour, that being the Vuelta a Espana. Yesterday he writes in his blog:  "Stage 9 was another summit finish with plenty of rolling beforehand. That start was directly into a category 3 climb at km 3. I was trying to cover the moves, but I was full throttle just trying to follow, so I was basically useless. I even lost the wheel on the descent after the top, just couldn't go faster! The move thankfully went right after the descent, and it was time to settle in for another day of being ridden into the ground by Katusha. I don't know how they are so strong. Anyway, I did my best to protect our guys, get bottles, and keep myself alive for the day. As is usual, the pace amplified as we approached the final climb. I lost contact with our guys, so I surfed the field as it rolled into the climb.

Here's a nice interview of him by CyclingNews back in early August at the Tour of Poland. 

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Monday, August 29, 2011

Cyclocross Crossword #1

What's a newspaper without a crossword puzzle??






















Answer Key

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Cyclocross Wordsearch Puzzle #1

Bored at work? Thinking about cyclocross? Print this and look busy!

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Motley Monday

WISCONSIN: Green Bay - A quick congratulations to Cole House (RealCyclist) of Oneida, WI who won the WORS MTB race in Green Bay yesterday. It's great seeing a roadie beating up on the mountain bikers at their own game! Plenty of images and photos over on the WORS site I'm sure for anyone who's interested.

Photo: Birmingham Patch
MICHIGAN: Birmingham Bicycle Festival - Comments on their Facebook page indicate that Sunday's race and festival was quite well received and a big success. Results are not yet available, but we do know that Greg Christian (Panther) took the Pro 1/2 race for his second victory of 2011. Photos available by Christan Robb and Julie McGraw. More info as it becomes available.
Photo: Birmingham Patch



 ILLINOIS: Chicago - XXX Jackson Park Cyclocross Relay. In it's second year, this very unique two man relay cyclocross race continues it's great popularity with local racers. This year Michael Hemme and James LaLonde took the top step of the Pro 1/2/3 podium. Please note the 5th place of Nate Labecki (IS Corp) and Gage Rodriguez (IS Corp) who are both -juniors- and won their junior category race which immediately preceded the main event. Props to this fine performance. Thirty five 2 man teams competed in the Pro 1/2/3, 47 in the Cat. 4.


Men - 1/2/3 RESULTS
1 Michael Hemme CHICAGO.CX Chicago, IL James LaLonde CHICAGO.CX Chicago, IL
2 Scott McLaughlin SRAM Factory Team Chicago, IL David Reyes SRAM Factory Team Chicago, IL
3 Brandon Elliott Iron Cycles/Pony Shop Chicago, IL Kevin Klug Iron Cycles/Pony Shop Elkhorn, WI
4 Scott Arrigoni Verdigris-Village CX Hoffman Estates, IL Tim Boundy Verdigris-Village CX Deer Park, IL 5 Nathan Labecki Team Wisconsin/ISCorp Milwaukee, WI Gage Rodriguez Team Wisconsin/KS Engergy Kenosha, WI



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Sunday, August 28, 2011

International News Sunday

Be glad you're not on the east coast but here, basking in the warm sun!

TAIWAN: Taipei - More from Team Action Cycling who continues to pump up the overall victory of Chun-kai Feng and his 'invincible' legs. The successful participation of Team Taiwan was one of the feature articles in "Cycling" magazine, right along with their Tour de France coverage. 

SPAIN: Madrid - Wisconsin's very own Mathew Busche (Radio Shack) is beginning the second week of his first grand tour in the Vuelta a Espana. In his BLOG he writes: "I have had my share of experiences already I think. I've fetched bottles, protected our leaders, spent all day in the break, given my wheel for a teammate, seen a team car get air, spent time in the gruppetto, and experienced a full range of physical and emotional/mental states that are typical for this sport." He also writes: "Scary moment today. I saw the results of a boy running out into the road to get a bottle. A rider collided with him at 60kmh+. I think they both were fine in the end. Maybe the boy broke his nose or something. The rider obviously had road rash and his bike was broken in half. Considering the situation, I'd say those results were pretty good. I hope they both recover well."

Busche is indeed having a good tour. He was in a breakaway on stage 4 that gained up to 8 minutes. Here you can see him sporting his stars and stripes kit at the front.  More about "Flip"s escape can be found on the Team Radio Shack website.
Now, Flip is not the first Wisconsin rider to be riding a grand tour this season. Recall that Hudson, Wisconsin's Bjorn Selander, rode the Giro d'Italia in May, wore the white jersey as best young rider for a few days, finishing 129th overall. Bjorn Selander | Nissan 370z short from Film Matters on Vimeo.

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Saturday, August 27, 2011

Road Course Review - Whitnall Park

As we get into the downhill side of the season, let's take some time and look at the various road courses used here in the midwest. Perhaps make some comparisons, or entice you to try a new race. Today's race:


Whitnall Park Road Race. Used by Superweek in the past and again most recently, this is a rider favorite. The course is smack dab in the middle of picturesque Whitnall Park on Milwaukee's southwest side where riders cross several small creeks and pass several frog ponds. Traffic is easy to exclude ensuring a safe race, parking is ample, and the pavement is smooth. This course was used back in the '80s but the road surface was really rough in sections, literally rattling your teeth, and making it somewhat dangerous. More recently, the road has been improved (thank goodness for the demise of pea-gravel) and once again Superweek has picked it up as one of the premier road courses in the area. At 2.1 miles long, it could be called either a circuit race or a road race, I suppose, and features three climbs (riding counter-clockwise), none of which are brutal in themselves (all can be climbed in the big chainring), but the steepest one is less than a km from the finish, and just out far enough from the line that a move here doesn't necessarily mean easy victory, but certainly a big factor in the races outcome.
MapMyRide.Com
In the springtime, a shorter version of this loop is used for the Whitnall Park Criterium, using just the 1.1 mile western loop of this course, and in the opposite direction (clockwise). This version is brutal in that there isn't much rest, you're either climbing or descending at a high speed, with one of the climbs beginning right out of a hairpin type turn, so it's a real torque-fest.
MapMyRide.Com
If you have Google Earth installed in your computer, enjoy this flyby view of the long course:     
Video of the criterium loop:


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Friday, August 26, 2011

Fire-up Friday

Just some motivational material on a slow news day.

Get out and ride!

In 2010, the Verizon U25 team had a film student following them around
throughout the season. He did a great job. Enjoy.




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Thursday, August 25, 2011

Urban 'Cross Thursday

First up, what's going on this weekend? MICHIGAN: Birmingham - Birmingham Bicycle Festival. This all day event will be held this Sunday, August 30th in downtown Birmingham, just north of Detroit. Organizer Jeff Surnow said he didn’t want it to be just a race, but rather, a festival the whole community could enjoy. The Pro 1/2 race features $4,000 in prize money paying 25 deep. As the only road racing event happening in the midwest this weekend, we hope they have a very successful event!

ILLINOIS: Chicago - Jackson Park Relay 'CrossThe unofficial 'Cross season opener in Illinois.With an "Alley Cat" start (LeMans start) and a relay format, this event demonstrates just how much Chicagoans love their cycling.
xXx Racing-Athletico Cyclocross RELAY Race from Waylon Janowiak on Vimeo.
TRACK EVENTS: What? There's still racing at the track? Yup. Quite a bit too. MINNESOTA: Blaine, MN -  Omnium State Championships Saturday Aug. 27th, 2011 Rain Date Sunday Aug. 28th National Sports Center Velodrome WISCONSIN: Kenosha - Sprinter's Challenge Tuesday, August 30, 2011 Kenosha Washington Bowl. Sprints, Keirin, Scratch, Tempo races. Last chance to race at the Bowl this season! ILLINOIS: Northbrook - IL Madison State Championship Thursday, September 1st. Madison plus Miss-n-outs for all cats. ILLINOIS: Chicago - Chicago Velo Campus. Don't forget they still have open training certification classes, as well as rental bike now at the new 166m wooden velodrome. Informal racing too if I understand correctly. Go get some laps in! Bandit 'Cross (unofficial) MINNESOTA: St. Louis Park, MN - Tuesday Night 'Cross Every Tuesday night through October 11th with a skills clinic held before hand. WISCONSIN: Glendale - Kletzsch Park CX Practice - Wednesdays at 6pm through ?? Urban 'Cross!!

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011

'Cross Focus Wednesday

Today we look ahead at the opening acts in each midwest state's cyclocross calendars to see what's in store for us this new season.

WISCONSIN: Eagle - Sept. 17th - No Good Double Cross. *CANCELLED* BUMMER! Great course on a western town themed horse ranch. Goats, horses, saloon with wooden sidewalks, Hilltop chapel along with a very technical course. Forced to be cancelled due to unknown problems with the property owners.

So, that bumps the start of the WCA Series up to Saturday, October 1st and 'Cross the Domes, held smack dab in the middle of the city of Milwaukee at the botanical domes - Mitchel Park. It was a tough course in 2010 with a LONG sand pit and wicked climb that only the fittest Cat. 2's were able to pedal up. Guaranteed to be a great event.


The next day, Sunday October 2nd is a new venue in Kewaskum, WI at River Hill Park. I can't picture this park in my head, but the villiage of Kewaskum describes it as: "... home to the popular July 4th Fireworks display.  River Hill Park is also ideal for a leisurely walk, family picnic, or fishing. The park contains a large fishing pond and dam where the Milwaukee River flows south through the Village. There is also a large, wooded hillside, picnic tables, access the Eisenbahn State Trail, and two playground areas. Group/family activity facilities include a kitchen, two food stands, a band stand and a large shelter area all with electricity and are vailable for reservation/rental. " and the official course description reads: "This course will consist of a mix of grass, gravel, and off-camber terrain. The course is situated next to the “River” and makes full use of the “Hill” traversing it with many off camber sections, including 1 steep ride/run-up per lap. " As far back as I can remember, there has never been a sanctioned race in Kewaskum, so this should be exciting. You can now find up to date information on this race's Facebook page.

ILLINOIS: The unofficial start to the Illinois cyclocross season is the XXX Relays on Sunday August 28th at Chicago's Jackson Park. Yes, THIS Sunday. Then, the first race of the Chicross series is on Sunday October 2nd at Hopkins Park in Dekalb. COURSE DESCRIPTION:  Mature Trees, open fields, a short hill and a few asphalt sections await you on this fast course.



INDIANA: For the most up to date information on the Indiana CX Cup, LIKE them on their Facebook Page. The opener of the Indiana CX Cup is the Brookside Cup on Saturday, September 24th and the St. Mary's 'Cross at Fort Benjamin Harris State Park on Sunday, September 25th. This all get's a little confusing because their schedule includes races in KY and OH which begin a bit earlier in September.



MICHIGAN: Okay, now it get's confusing! In eastern Michigan (Saginaw area) there is the Tri-City Cyclocross series which begins in Harrison on Sept. 18th and the Tommy Tsunami 'Cross Race. In western Michigan (Grand Rapids), it is the Krisscross Series beginning on Sunday, September 11th at the Plaster Creek Park, Grand Rapids. Finally, up north is the UP Cross series that officially begins on Sunday., September 25, 2011 at the Al Quaal Trails in Ishpeming, MI.  *HOWEVER*, there is a 'cross race in Houghton on September 17th at the Michigan Tech Sherman Field held at night under the lights! That would be a great one to attend. This series also includes two races in Ashland, WI on October 23 and 24 which are the only 'cross races in far northern Wisconsin.






MINNESOTA: The Minnesota Cycling Federation has both a weekly Tuesday night 'cross race in St. Louis Park, and weekend series that begins on Saturday, September 24th with Cyclocross Conspiracy in Corcoran followed on Sunday the 25th with EC3 Rivers 'Cross in Maple Grove.

IOWA:  There are two races in the Iowa Cyclocross series and weekly practices held on Tuesdays in Des Moines. The first race is Cory's Irish 'Cross in Bondurant on September 17th. Course description: Cyclocross pavement, grass, and gravel. One short killer hill. Course starts and stops at Cory's Irish pub. Should be a fast circut.

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Tuesday, August 23, 2011

Tubular Tuesday

WISCONSIN: Fond du Lac - Race The Lake. Just a few final words on this one. According  to the rules, no aero gear is allowed in the Elite wave (for good reason!) so that puts the hammer head time trialists in wave 2. Not surprisingly, I guess, when they were let loose they did what they do best ... got to the front and chase. A group of them on full time trial bikes rotated on the front of wave 2 and chased down the Elite wave, while the Cat 4/5's got an armchair ride of their life right to the front pack.  Hopefully some lessons were learned for next year!


James Bird (Photo: PJStar.Com)
ILLINOIS: Morton Cycling Classic - Formerly known as the Proctor Cycling Classic for the past 23 years in Peoria, IL, organizers teamed up with the city of Morton and the Morton Community Bank to continue the long tradition of providing a quality event for bicycle racing. In the Pro 1/2, James Bird (IS Corp) came up with the win. PJStar.Com gives us the story: "The 19-year-old from Kenilworth drafted behind runner-up Scott Pearson until the final sprint, and then went around him to win the featured men’s Pro Category 1/2 race." Bird as had a lot of success in the junior ranks, but this is his first in the Pro 1/2.  

MICHIGAN: East Grand Rapids - Tour de Gaslight Criterium - A Michigan Challenge Points Series event. Total purse of $5,500 plus primes but not much news coming out of there yet. RESULTS 1st David Williams BISSELL PRO CYCLING Indianapolis, IN , 2nd Alder Martz Hincapie Development team Charlotte, NC who we know from racing in Superweek, and in 20th , frequently at the top of the velodrome podiums (if they had 'em), John Tomlinson Chemstar Chicago, IL




Totally Tubular!

 


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Monday, August 22, 2011

Madness Monday

WISCONSIN: Fond du Lac - Race the Lake. So another edition of this newcomer to the race calendar is complete (3rd Annual?) with a wild finish that hopefully will not be repeated. Andrew Crater was present to defend his title from 2010, and Rahsaan Bahati was there as well to make sure he didn't. Recall in Bahati's video yesterday, that he shot as they 'raced', that the speed was only 22mph. That became the deciding factor in the results because that allowed the second wave to catch the first/Elite wave. The catch was described by one rider as being like a 'bull in a china shop' as the second wave charged through the first on their way to certain victory. This catch created a ~100 rider monster that charged towards the finish and crashes were being reported everywhere. The last second dodging of cones was one cause of crashes and because of this, I believe, many riders, with the pedigree to win, simply sat up.  Early reports on Facebook exclaimed that Bahati had won, but looking at the official RESULTS, he is listed as 11th place. What happened? Well, the rules don't state exactly what time gap is placed between the groups, but evidently while Bahati won the field sprint, 10 riders including the 'winner' Doug Callies (name misspelled in the results), had a better time. So, the race payed out 10 places ... Bahati is first across the line, but since he's 11th, he doesn't get any money??? No, according to the RULES, only riders in the Elite wave are eligible for the money, so Bahati still get's $1,800 for the  'win' of 11th place. Looking through the results you can see many top racers well down the sheet indicating that they probably simply sat up rather than contest a wild and dangerous field sprint. So, Doug Callies ... who is he? Is he a triathlete? An Ironman? Nope, he's a 50 year old Cat. 4/5 from Beaver Dam, WI who has been racing for two years. Credit given to him for being on good form recently, but a 50 year old Masters 4/5 racer beating the likes of Bahati and Crater in a 90 mile race? Uh, that's not right.      There was a $500 prize given for the KOM at High Cliff State Park, half way through the race, and while we do have video of that KOM, it's not at the finish line, so we don't know who actually won that prime at this time. We do see just how large the field is at the half way point and you can only imagine what it was like during the charge back home into Fond du Lac for the race finish.



That's it for now. More information from the weekend will trickle in later and we'll catchup on the happenings then.

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Sunday, August 21, 2011

Sassafrass Sunday

WISCONSIN: The WCA Cyclocross schedule has some changes, the first race is now 'Cross The Domes instead of No Good Double Cross which has been cancelled due to some problems with the site owners. So the first few races are:

Oct. 1Cross the Domes, Milwaukee
Oct. 2River Hill Park CX, Kewaskum
Oct 8Grafton PumpkinCross, Grafton
WISCONSIN: Fond du Lac - First off, is the event that is happening at this very moment - Race the Lake, which is the 90 mile long 'citizens' race around Lake Winnebago, or as Rahsaan Bahati calls it ... Lake Wisconsin. It would appear that he was in the area for the US PRo Crit. Grand Rapids looking for a one day ride on a Pro team, but evidently didn't get it. Watch the video to find his motivation for this one ...   (Maybe he can cash in on the KOM $)
MICHIGAN: Grand Rapids - Congratulations to Bloomington, IN resident Eric Young on his win in yesterday's US PRO Criterium Championship! Seen here just nipping Brad Huff in the final dash to the line. (Image and video: Bloomington Velonews)  A bit of background on Young, he was on the winning Cutters Team in the Little 500 bike race at Indiana University.in Bloomington  last year after enduring an awful car collision during a training session. This is a great win for Midwest cycling fans. Earlier this summer, Mathew Busche (Radio Shack) of Wauwatosa, Wisconsin took the US Pro Road Championship, and now Eric Young of Bloomington, Indiana wins the US PRO Criterium Championship. Proof of the depth of talent found right here in our backyards.
MICHIGAN: Marquette - Ore to Shore. While mountain biking is not a major goal of these pages, some races are worthy of mentioning, one of these being Ore to Shore - the first in the Triple Crown of mountain biking (Ore to Shore, Chequamegon, and Ice Man). Sheboygan, Wisconsin's very own Brian Matter won the 2011 edition on Saturday, August 13th. These MTB races are being invaded more and more by strong road racers such as, second place this year, Cole House who has his back pockets full of solid European racing experience including the big spring classics like the Tour of Flanders. Read the winner's account of how it played out on his blog: "The race played out way different than in the past. Cole went hard up the luge climb. Lead group of 30. I went hard over the power lines. Lead group of 15. Tristan went hard before the Misery Hill. Lead Group of 15. I went hard up and after misery Hill followed by Tristan going hard. Lead group 13. WOW. " Third place finisher Tristan Schouten gives his view from his blog: "The dynamics of the race have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years I think and I'm not sure why. I remember the first years I did the race and going gangbusters for the first 30 minutes after going over the luge climb. It just never let up. Now it seems like it is more road racing tactics with lots of group riding and lots of guys being able to sit in the group. I had the best legs I've ever had at this race this year so it was encouraging to be able to train specifically for the event, and then have excellent form. I was never in trouble at all in the race and always felt in control and comfortable. The last mile didn't play out that well for me, I think having Cole House in the race changed the race dramatically in the last 10 miles because of his strength and sprinting capability." (C'mon Cole, when are you going to start your own blog???) What's it like to ride this race? See for yourself ...

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Saturday, August 20, 2011

Soggy Saturday

It's a wet Saturday morning for parts of the midwest, so that's our theme of the day!

MICHIGAN: Grand Rapids - US PRO Criterium is going down today. Looks like it might be a wet one. Hopefully, we'll get good LIVE web coverage of all the action. Coverage begins at 10:45am CT.

TAIWAN: Taipei - Remember the Asian Domination in this year's Superweek? Well, look at what I just ran across on Facebook. Am not exactly sure which magazine this is, any ideas? Probably the best magazine coverage this series has seen in years.






Keep the rubber side down!







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Friday, August 19, 2011

Friday Funnies

First the news.

RUSSIA: Moscow - 2011 Jr World Track Championships - Kaleb Koch (IS Corp) of Glenview, IL continues to compete in the Junior Worlds. finishing 24th in the Kilometer with a time of 1:06.921 @ 53.795kph.

Events this weekend:

Interestingly, former US PRO Criterium champion Rahsaan Bahati is not racing for a Professional team this year so will not be allowed to race in Grand Rapids this weekend during the US PRO Criterium Championships (See Below). How strange is that?

ILLINOIS:
Morton Community Bank Cycling Classic
Permit Number: 2011-1723
Race Value Level: D Event
08/20/2011
200 S. Main St
Morton, IL
Event Flyer
www.peoriabicycleclub.com
Online Registration


MINNESOTA:
Team racing on the velodrome in Blaine -
The Grind
Permit Number: 2011-2882
Race Value Level: D Event
08/19/2011 - 08/20/2011
Blaine, MN
Event Flyer


WISCONSIN:
Race The Lake - Fond du Lac
90 mile one lap citizens race around Lake Winnebago
Event Flyer


MICHIGAN: This year with LIVE on-line TV coverage!

GR Cycling Classic & USAC Pro Crit Nat Champ
Permit Number: 2011-176
Race Value Level: Uci
08/20/2011
Grand Rapids, MI
Event Flyer
www.GRCyclingClassic.com
Online Registration


Tour de Gaslight
Permit Number: 2011-2451
Race Value Level: D Event
08/21/2011
1351 Valley NW
East Grand Rapids, MI
Event Flyer
ridewestmichigan.com/tdg/


On to the funnies!

  



  






















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Thursday, August 18, 2011

Tough 'Cross Thursday

RUSSIA: Moscow - UCI Junior World Track Championships. After a strong performance at the US Junior National Track Championships, Glenview, Illinois' Kaleb Koch (IS Corp) is now currently competing in the Junior Worlds held in Moscow Russia. He, and his teammates placed 11th in the team sprint. We wish him the best of luck in his future events! RESULTS PAGE

Peloton Star now learns that Kaleb also won the Kenosha News Trophy Junior race on August 9th. Congratulations!
Junior 35 Lap Kenosha News Trophy Race
1. Kaleb Koch (Nova IS Corp ) 27
2. Nathan Labecki (Nova IS Corp ) 27
3. Alexander Riva (Kenosha Velosport)




Yesterday, we looked at the fun side of cyclocross. Today we get down and dirty.



2008 Jingle 'Cross - Iowa City
 

2008 Whitewater







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Wednesday, August 17, 2011

Weird 'Cross Wednesday

ILLINOIS: Winfield Criterium Weekend - The RESULTS are squirreled away here in Google Docs and some great photos can be seen HERE on Smugmug.








ILLINOIS: Chicago Velo Campus - I know that not everybody is on Facebook, so I'm rebroadcasting some of the information that is posted there. Because of the steep banking and uniqueness of the track, organizers are now certifying riders so they may train and race there.  Classes are held nightly (?) from 4-6pm and 6-8pm. The cost is $10. I don't believe it has been worked out how riders from abroad will be able to get certified in a short period of time if they are in town just to race, but there are no races scheduled yet as of this time. For more info you can contact them at: info@chicagovelocampus.com

CYCLOCROSS: According to the Wikipedia entry on cyclocross, it is stated that: "Clothing is similar to that of road racing. However, since cyclo-cross is a cold-weather sport there is an emphasis toward warmer clothing such as long sleeves, tights, knickers and arm and leg warmers." Guess nobody consulted these folks when they wrote that article!



Here in Wisco ... we don't screw around with wimpy barriers ...



And in Chicago ... well, they do everything differently ...

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